A moment of silence for all....

[TryLogic]

I am a loyal, fiscal conservative, capitalistic and freedom loving Agnostic American. I have grown very weary of the proselytizing by Republican conservatives who claim to be the "Party of God!"

However one wants to spin the argument about America being a Christian nation, it seems clear that the successes and strengths of America come from the foundation our forefathers established to insure a government of the people, by the people and for the people, with no control or attachment to anyone's chosen religion.

Since religions are based on speculation about which supernatural God rewards or punishes us, it is very unfortunate that our wise forefathers didn't see the problem they would create by using generic terms like "creator." It should be clear to any reasonable person that the great minds of our founders did not agree on whom or what the creator was, or they would have joined together to create the “one true theocracy”.....exactly the nightmare that drove them to face their dangerous journey to America. That is one reason so many of them fought to keep "Jesus" out of the founding documents. Obviously a good compromise for them was a "generic creator."… i.e. Thomas Jefferson did not accept Jesus a an immortal supernatural God.

Today, I see this as a very destructive issue to the climate of modern politics. In the environment of freedom, Christianity and all other religions and beliefs have grown and survived. Since many of our forefathers religious history came from Christian sects, the odds were good that Christianity would be come the predominant religion of many Americans. Great cases have been made to support the idea that the dominating religious dogma of any region tends to be those most likely to grow and survive in that region.

I am distressed at times about the political climate, and attitude of pious conservatives who cannot stop their attacks on everyone they see as not accepting of their God.

What is really confusing to me, is that all the god chasers, who can't even agree with one another about God, will join together to attack anyone who refuses to take a "leap of faith!" It is sort of like....if you don't believe in God you are pond scum," but if you will just believe in any one of the 10,000 or so gods, then you are a "brother in faith and righteousness to the Almighty!"

There is something very wrong with these equivalents .....

If Jesus = Obama = Rev. Wright = Huckabee = Beck = Graham = Ted Haggard = Romney = Pope …….does that equate to Honorable Character?

If God = Islam = Catholicism = Protestants = Mormonism = Hebrews = Scriptures =Religion ….. does that equate to Spiritual Truth?


I am tired of tuning in to media pundits who are praising the God of Government... or, the God of Righteousness.

In a free country we should define all people who obey and follow the law of our Democracy as valued citizens, and we should stop defining worthiness referring to scriptures credited to supernatural gods ....and delivered by men.

Some extremely worthwhile people are agnostic non-believers.....Bill Gates and Warren Buffet for example....giving to charities around the world and sharing their free market rewards.

I use to call myself a Republican......but it's hard to do today....

I have always thought of the Left and Liberalism as the "Church of Socialism" ...promoting sameness and destroying the free will to build a dream.

I now think of the Right and the Republicans as the "Church of Divisiveness"...promoting Christianity and Jesus as the foundation of America, and impeding the cause of fiscal conservatism so many non-believers cherish!

I don't care what creator you believe in, we should put religion aside like our forefathers did and regain the freedom and independence they gave us, or we will lose the freedom of belief that we should dearly cherish.

So, O'Reilly, Hannity, Beck, Huckabee, Limbaugh, Ingram, Franklin Graham etc....quit insinuating that all non-believers are hopeless pond scum liberal progressives........America needs fiscally conservative non-believers to get our country back on track.......and trust me, there are many of us out here!

I heard Glenn Beck proselytizing today that we need to rebuild our connection to the faith of our forefathers.....I would remind him of Thomas Jefferson's words...

"Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear."
Thomas Jefferson

How about a moment of silence to respect freedom of belief......and non-belief

[TryLogic]

In an editorial last Saturday endorsing David Cameron — its first for the Conservative Party in 18 years — the London Times said, “We must choose. Either we are to be a country that has lost confidence in the ingenuity and potential of its people, and concludes that the State must continue to grow and protect us from ourselves. Or we can be a country that cares for the needy but reins in the ever-growing appetite of government and frees up people to grow their businesses, nurture their families and pursue their own hopes and happiness.”

http://www.calthomas.com/index.php?news=2910

Conservatives should join together in politics, not religion, to stop this same socialist philosophy from taking over America!

TryUsingLogic.com

[TryLogic]

I have stated many times in my posts that I believe freedom of belief is essential to a functional and fair democratic society. It would be nice if there was a level playing field when non-believers question the "godly" intentions of believers. I feel the debate will probably never be solved because all religions have written into their dogma that questioning or rejecting one's chosen "godly" belief is a fatal spiritual decision. Most people have a natural fear of death and the unknown, and the men who write the scriptures know that the fear of "sinning against some god" is like attaching a 'supernatural detonator" to every soul and if one chooses to remove it, God will push the button.......a compassionate God at that? And the sad thing, it is obvious men are pushing the buttons!

It seems to me that fear will continue to overpower man's ability to use reason.

TryUsingLogic.com

[creekboy]

I have a question.

What does it say about a person's character to use religion for political gain?

To make a person out to be less of an American, because of their faith?

I know you find that offensive. I do too.

The difference is, you vote for these chauvinists.

Rove, used religion from the start in Texas. Had weekly conference calls with that big time evangelical gay fornicator in Colorado.

Roger Ailes, Glen Beck, Brett Humme, these are your guys. You vote exactly as they say.

These people are yellow journalists. They sell you a myth, a political myth, and you eat it up.

You should consider Ron Paul.

[TryLogic]

Originally Posted by creekboy

I have a question.

What does it say about a person's character to use religion for political gain?

To make a person out to be less of an American, because of their faith?

I know you find that offensive. I do too.

The difference is, you vote for these chauvinists.

Rove, used religion from the start in Texas. Had weekly conference calls with that big time evangelical gay fornicator in Colorado.

Roger Ailes, Glen Beck, Brett Humme, these are your guys. You vote exactly as they say.

These people are yellow journalists. They sell you a myth, a political myth, and you eat it up.

You should consider Ron Paul.

Actually Leftist primarily sell the political myths and the Right perpetrates the religious myths. In a American society that claims to be 80% Christian we all have the problem of deciding who has the better political solutions and which candidates are least likely to infringe upon our freedoms. Today the Liberal's like BO are pushing Jesus just like the right does because of the dominance of Christianity in America.

I constantly criticize the overbearing Christian Right and am equally concerned about the "new found" Christian Left like BO and Rev. Wright.
My choice is becoming more and more based on candidates who support liberal democracy and free markets and represent to me they would most likely protect the separation of church and state.

I also believe that the proper Libertarian or Conservative candidate would be better than any of the Liberal/Socialist dreamers. The word here is "proper" and Huckabee, Palin, Paul and others with wacky political or religious agendas do not fit any appealing mold for me.

There are all different kinds of Libertarians and Paul is at the fringe of radical ideas that do not fit our complex society which will never be one pure form of government. I totally disagree with his view of our place and responsibilities in the world order.

There are some great Libertarians out there, but Paul is not impressive to me in his ideas or character....at all!

When it comes to voting, I will select the candidate who most represents freedom, liberal democracy and capitalism..... Who ever that might be....and decide if my conscience will let me vote for them.

When I vote for Conservatives it is in spite of their pious religious beliefs. I do not vote for Left/Socialists because history proves their politics wrong ...and they are also sucking up to a chosen God to boot!

The decline of America can be directly connected to our progression to become socialist democracies like Canada and the EU.

The conservatives you mention are not "my guys." Do I agree with many of their political opinions....yes!......do I agree with BO and Biden's political opinions....mostly no!

I do not worship any of the candidates, and I find the ideas and personal background of Paul to be especially distasteful.....

Rove, by the way, is a politically street smart Agnostic.

TryUsingLogic.com

[creekboy]

http://www.colbertnation.com/the-col...he-mountaintop

[TryLogic]

Originally Posted by creekboy

http://www.colbertnation.com/the-col...he-mountaintop

Actually, I think that is a very funny skit! No one criticizes conservatives for using religion as a crutch more than I do.

But it is disingenuous to connect freedom, liberty and democracy to pious religious beliefs and then try to claim that socialism is the way and the truth!

Belief or disbelief in gods should have nothing to do with the historical fact that liberty and democracy are better served by capitalism and rule of law.

There is no greater actor than Obama hanging on to Jesus after his dance with Rev. Wright!

Our country is founded on freedom, government of the people, by the people and for the people, and the right to believe what we choose.

Socialism or theocracies do not offer a solution and do not replace the foundation and dreams that our forefathers extended to us all!

[creekboy]

Originally Posted by TryLogic

Actually, I think that is a very funny skit! No one criticizes conservatives for using religion as a crutch more than I do.

They don't use it as a crutch, they use it as a hammer.

More than anything, that shows low character.

Do you agree?

[TryLogic]

Originally Posted by creekboy

They don't use it as a crutch, they use it as a hammer.

More than anything, that shows low character.

Do you agree?

I basically agree...I don't know if "character" is the right word because I have very Liberal, Conservative, non-believing and religious friends that I feel are misguided but have good character....maybe "bad judgment" is a better phrase except in extreme cases.

Also, the Liberals use the God of Government as a hammer [and religion more and more!]....don't you agree?

There are misguided forces from both sides of the political spectrum and that is why some form of compromise is necessary that does not deny or delete our individual freedoms and pursuit of happiness.

Separation of church and state is essential for government to even begin to offer a chance of fairness to all citizens.

TryUsingLogic.com

[creekboy]

The god of government?

Very weak.

We've debated the roll of government throughout our history. I have seen people advise more and less, but I have never seen anyone worship government.